Talk:Cricket in the West Indies

History Section

I noticed that this page did not address the history of cricket in the West Indies. I started a new section specifically for its history and discussed how the British military brought the sport over to the Caribbean and stated that as cricket's origin in the region. There is of course a lot more to the history of cricket in the West Indies.

JFrye61 (talk) 17:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Citations in Expansion section

I added some information about further segregation in inter-island competitions on to JHCRosero's initial description in the expansion section today, but the citations are showing up multiple times even though it is citing the same source three times. Not sure how to fix it - could use some help! (whoops, wasn't logged in) --Mollykluba (talk) 03:50, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your edit. I've tidied a few things up. I'm not quite sure how accurate it is. I don't think many black Carribeans took up the sport until after slavery. Also "pitching" is a baseball term not a cricket one, I've changed it to "throwing" but I'm not sure that this is what you meant. We also need mention of South Asians; cricket is not only played by whites and blacks.GordyB (talk) 16:05, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with GordyB's points. Also, references should include page numbers. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 16:41, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I've added one or two new references and added the page number for the sentence where you mention "throwing" and "bowling". I change the sentence which was also modified by GordyB based on what the reference says. The text says "they were allowed to prepare pitches" and so I changed the sentence to the following: Foremost, they were allowed to prepare the wicket before matches, although some were permitted to bowl or retrieve batted balls. I hope this is alright by you Mollykluba. 147.4.36.65 (talk) 00:25, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Societal Impact

I added a new section to discuss the impact of Cricket in West Indies society. Cricket was a sort of symbol of their colonization by the British, and after they gained their independence, the sport was fraught with tension. It also had a great impact on the integration of colored people. This section can definitely be expanded more if anyone wants to elaborate. Julesaj11 (talk) 16:41, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Could you avoid using the word "colo[u]red" as it is considered a taboo word in British English?GordyB (talk) 20:55, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Expanding on that, a section could be added to describe the impact the sport had on Indian societies as well, specifically social classes and identity. As the game was mostly played by high class British men, once the men of India saw that they could be equally as good, or even better, at the game, they began to associate with belonging to a "higher class", ergo the same as the British men. Rnavarro1095 (talk) 22:37, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Societal Impact section

I expanded upon the societal impact section. I agree that cricket was a major influence on the transition from colonization to independence and wanted to speak more on its effects. I also mentioned captains George Headley and Frank Worrell, who are two of many notable black figures in the history of cricket in the West Inides, and made note of the debate over the issue of fast-bowling. The influence of cricket in the West Indies could almost be it's own separate page, and it is difficult to decide what information and events are the most important to include. I believe however between myself and Julesaj11 (talk) there is now at least a reasonable amount of information for the public to consider.

Jbenes4 (talk) 13:17, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

From a cricketing viewpoint (rather than an academic one!) this is a pretty good start. If you are looking for ways to develop this, there are a few ways. First, as I've said in several places, read Beyond a Boundary by C. L. R. James. He goes into this in great detail, and I think he is covering the exact ground that you seem to be looking for. He also has a lot on Headley and Worrell: he was instumental in Worrell's appointment as captain. Second, the captaincy of the West Indies team was incredibly political as the captain was exclusively white until Worrell in 1960 (with one isolated exception in 1948). There was a big political movement to have a black captain in the 1950s. Another thing would be the ethnicity of the players: the statement "The inclusion of black players in the West Indies team marked a moment of democratic integration in society. The talented West Indies players helped to overturn an existing idea of racial supremacy" is a little naive. Until the 1940s, this was not really the case. See, as an isolated example, this article. I agree that the impact of cricket could have an article to itself. Perhaps one could be started in a sandbox? (I would advise against trying to create one from scratch in the project mainspace. It would probably be deleted.) Let me know if I can help further, either here or on my talk page. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:05, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

It's worth bearing in mind that the West Indies were not the only cricketing nation to have a reputation for fast bowling. Series between England and Australia were also marked in controversy (even more so) because of this topic. See bodyline.GordyB (talk) 20:53, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

True: there is perhaps a correlation between former colonies, fast bowlers and beating England too: see Australian cricket team in England in 1921 or Australian cricket team in England in 1948! But I agree with the current article that there was a racial element to the bowling and of the "us versus them". Particularly when Tony Greig (a South African playing for England during the apartheid regime, for the benefit of non-cricketers following this) said that he would make West Indies "grovel" in 1976 (see here). Also (not sure I can source this) there was quite an outcry when WI were beating everyone in the 1970s and 1980s about intimidation and unfair tactics; an outcry that was singularly absent in the same commentators when England or Australia pursued the same tactics. Not to say all those who criticised were doing so because of racial issues, but there was comment (which I can't source right now!) about this at the time, and it became a minor controversy. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:09, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Origins of West Indian Cricket

Based off of the beginning of the movie Fire in Babylon as well as chapter 5 of Globalizing Cricket, the concept of playing cricket and mastering it for the West Indian team as a means to fire back at other nations especially England seems to be a recurring and very crucial theme. In order to free themselves of the bond placed over them by colonialism as well as prove that The West Indies is indeed a unified nation, Cricket was their outlet to do so. As a result of fast bowling as seen by the Australian players, West Indian Cricket players felt they needed to master the technique in order to fire back at England as they felt exiled and captive. Therefore, Cricket for the West Indies starts to become meaningful after 1975 in which the fast bowling, or "military assault" began to ensnare the mindset of the West Indian cricket team.NRadi1 (talk) 06:11, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

It was always meaningful. You don't necessarily need to explain all your edits on the talk page, just if there is some controversy or disagreement. Some of us don't need to do a university course in cricket and Englishness.GordyB (talk) 12:27, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Although I would say that the edit presumably being referred to is controversial, at least to the extent that it places somewhat loaded and esoteric interpretation and analysis here as if it were fact. If nothing else, it needs sourcing and probably attribution too (and that's before we get onto any questions of balance). WP pages are not meant to be collaborative interpretative essays, a point which the whole Wikipedia:Englishness and Cricket project seem to be missing. N-HH talk/edits 22:20, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

The facts aren't necessarily wrong but participants could do with reading up on NPOV as some of the language is very biased "occupation" versus "colonised" for instance and whilst cricket was is a very political sport, it is not entirely about politics. It did survive the end of empire. To be fair, the edits are referenced but I think you can't really build entire articles on one reference. I haven't read this Malcolm fellow's book but other sources exist and this article isn't "Malcolm's opinion on West Indian cricket".22:46, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Economical Impacts

A section could be added to at least touch on the economical impact that the initial adoption of cricket had in India. In addition to imports/exports, cricket served as a large component on jumpstarting India's economy as a growing nation. Rnavarro1095 (talk) 22:42, 7 December 2016 (UTC)